Subj:	TRAVELLER digest 367
Date:	95-08-03 16:58:31 EDT
From:	traveller@mpgn.com
To:	traveller@mpgn.com

From:	traveller@mpgn.com
Sender:	traveller@mpgn.com
Reply-to:	traveller@mpgn.com
To:	traveller@mpgn.com (Multiple recipients of list)
			    TRAVELLER Digest 367

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Mesonguns, yet again	by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
  2) Chimaeroc Far Trader Variant	by Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
  3) Re: Open vs. Closed Structures	by Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
  4) Re: RICE Paper: Jewell	by bonnevil@flipper.itlabs.umn.edu (Steven Bonneville)
  5) Vehicle spreadsheets, communicators	by Lauri Byckling <lby@niksula.hut.fi>
  6) Re(2): config stuff	by James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
  7) Fire Fusion and Steel	by bvanbra@bvemx.ppco.com
  8) Re: Fire Fusion and Steel	by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
  9) Re: Really Big Lasers	by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 16:11:08 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Mesonguns, yet again
Message-ID: <9508022211.AA27604@Rt66.com>

 
> I know that the meson gun (MG) vs laser debate has been worked over before.

> The feeling I got was the participants in that discussion only looked at
the 
> MG as a beam weapon. The only thing that the MG has in common with a laser 
> is that it is projected as a beam, but the damage is a sphere centered on 
> the point of explosion.

Kind of.  Closer to a cylinder, though, since the decays happen along the 
path of the beam.
 
> The main difference is that a laser which got high enough damage just 
> punches through the craft only doing damage to 2 sections of a craft. What 
> energy that are left from this is vented out into space and lost.

I posted a question some time ago along the same lines.  I think that this 
might be the easier way to go (if you're trying to come up with a reason for
MGs without the TL*50 limit).  What if a weapon can over penetrate?  A laser
or PAW whose beam dwells in one place too long punches through the other side
of the target, and the rest of the beam is wasted... use the excess damage
table, but if you get a result that requires the beam to stay in the same hull
area, take that damage, then up to another 5major hits, then exit via the 
opposite area (shots down the length of a target might be tricky, though).

It would give the MG an advantage since all the damage the weapon does would
actually hit the target.

I was wondering how this would change KE weapons, as well.


-Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 17:19:44 -0700
From: Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Chimaeroc Far Trader Variant
Message-ID: <02016590@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

     Here's a little something cooked up in the kitchen of Plankwell Subsector:

     
     
     Chimaeroc (Jayhawk-Class Far Trader)
     
     General Data
        Displacement:  200 tons Hull Armor:  31 (Crystaliron)
        Length:  42.5 meters    Volume:  2800 m3
        Price:  MCr 82.14       Target Size:  S
        Configuration:  Wedge/AF        Tech Level:  11
        Mass (Loaded/Empty):  2833.97/1889.48 tonnes
     
     Engineering Data
        Power Plant:  294 MW Fusion Power Plant (49 MW/hit), 1 year 
     duration
        Jump Performance:  2 (420 m3 fuel)
        G-Rating:  2G (100 MW/G), Contra-Grav Lifters (40 MW)
        G-Turns:  40 (73 using jump fuel), 12.5 m3 each
        Maint:  76
     
     Electronics
        Computer:  3 x TL-11 Mod Std Computers (0.35 MW each)
        Commo:  30,000km radio (1 hex; 1 MW), 1000AU maser ((; 0.6 MW)
        Avionics:  TL-10 Flight Avionics, TL-11 Terrain-following avionics
        Sensors:  Passive EMS Fixed Array 30,000km (1 hex; 0.04 MW), Active 
     EMS 60,000km (2 hexes; 30 MW)
        Controls:  7 x workstation
     
     Armament
        1 barbette hardpoint socket fitted (Loc:  16; Arcs:  All)
        Short   Medium  Long    Extreme
     150-Mj Laser Barbette      10:1/10-31      20: 1/5-17      40: 1/3-8   
        80: 1-4
     
     Accommodations
        Life Support:  Extended (0.56 MW), Grav Compensators (14 MW; 6G)
        Crew:  8 (4xEngineering, 1xElectronics, 2xManeuver, 1xGunnery).  
     Electronics doubles as Steward.
        Crew Accommodations:  4 Small Staterooms (0.0005 MW ea.)
        Passenger Accommodations:  8 Small Staterooms (0.0005 MW ea.)
        Cargo:  647.6 m3, two large cargo hatches, one small cargo hatch
        Small Craft and Launch Facilities:  Air/raft with internal hangar 
     (minimal), one launch port
        Air Locks:  2
     
     Notes
     The Chimaeroc, a variant of the Jayhawk-class far trader, equipped 
     with beefed-up armor and laser barbette, was built on 
     Mertactor/Plankwell (B262732-B) for trader operation in the central 
     Spinward Marches.
     
     The design variations were installed with the diversity of the region 
     in mind.  The enterprising free trader might well find himself 
     crossing borders into any number of regions including the Sword 
     Worlds, the Federation of Arden, the Darrian Confederation, the 
     Zhodani Consulate and Aslan ihatei-settled space.  Often, the eager 
     trader is misunderstood and needs to pack a little extra punch for 
     defense or a quick getaway in these regions.
     Crossing borders often transmutes the legality of one's cargo as well. 
      For this purpose, a 142 m3 concealed cargo section with its own small 
     cargo hatch is included.
     
     Fuel purification machinery included (1.61 MW), requiring 24 hours to 
     refine 920 m3.  Fuel Scoops installed.
     
     
     
     DAMAGE TABLES
     Area (1D20)        Surface Hits    Internal Explosion      Systems
     1  1-4: CH, 5-9: LP, 10: Ant       Hold    JD-3H   FPP-2H
     2-3        1: Ant  1-3:  Elec, 4-20:  Quarters     PP-6H   MD-4h
     4-5        1: Ant  1-3:  Elec, 4-19:  Quarters, 20: Hold   CG-1H   
     SSR-(2h)
     6-7, 10-15         Hold    LS-5H   All others- (1h)
     8-9        1-4: CH 1-6: TS, 7-20: Hold     AG-1H   
     16-17              1-6: Eng, 7-12:  Hold, 13-20: LB        LSR-1H  
     18-19      1: AL   1-6: Eng, 7-20:  Hold   LB-1H   
     20         Eng     ELS-3H  
     
     

------------------------------

Date: 02 Aug 1995 20:25:16 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Open vs. Closed Structures
Message-ID: <130875358.17342955@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca>

In the original High Guard, these were catch-all terms for irregular
structures that didn't fit into the other configurations.  The only
difference between them was that open structures included a fair amount of
empty space inside their perimeter, so they were harder to damage with
certain types of weapons.  (Oh yeah, and they couldn't be streamlined.)

Whether a hull structure is open or closed is a judgement call.  As a
guideline, if excess damage at a location spills into another location then
it's closed, if the excess damage 'vents' into space then it's open.  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 23:46:21 -0500
From: bonnevil@flipper.itlabs.umn.edu (Steven Bonneville)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: RICE Paper: Jewell
Message-ID: <199508030446.XAA17072@natasha.itlabs.umn.edu>

pd82495@wapol.gov.au (Michael Bailey) wrote:

>Note - My CT collection is rather patchy, I'd appreciate it if anyone picked
>up any 'violations of sacred canon' and let me know.

Sure!  Just remember, you asked for it.  :)

>Jewell was settled in the early 200's by colonists fleeing the chaos and
>violence of the Julian Wars.  The colonists, of mixed Solomani-Vilani

Nope.  It was settled sometime between 300 and 400, along with most of the
rest of the subsector.  The Jewell Cluster worlds of Jewell, Ruby, and
Emerald were members of the Imperium by 400, forming a small Imperial pocket
in the settled region.  The only other world in Jewell subsector that was
an Imperial member in 400 was Louzy, which was part of the Regina pocket.
In 300, Louzy was already in the Imperium but no settled regions existed 
beyond except five worlds down the Spinward Main in the Arden region.
(Sources: _Spinward Marches Campaign_, p. 18; _Traveller Adventure_, p. 15.)

You don't mention first survey, but traders contacted the Zhodani by 50, and
the IISS can't have been far behind.  The Darrians may have reached Jewell
shortly before the Maghiz; _Alien Realms_ has a small ruined Darrian facility

as close by as Emerald.  They didn't leave much of a mark if they did visit.

>Jewell Subsector navy (the governor is also Duke of the Jewell Subsector).

  "The Jewell subsector is fragmented into three distinct areas:  the
   Jewells, an Imperial region answering to the Duke of Regina...."

                                    -- _Spinward Marches Campaign_, p. 18.

I'm not sure Jewell has a duke of it's own, as odd as that seems, especially
considering that it's designated as subsector capital.  However, there's
only another 12 million people on the other five Jewells (Ruby, Emerald,
Mongo, Nakege, and Lysen), so a powerful count might make sense, looking
to Norris.  It would still be considered a subsector capital because of the
massive coordinating facilities there to support the frontier watch.  The
other worlds reporting to Jewell first would be the Imperial (er, Regency)
government on Esalin/Jewell and lonely, libertarian Quar/Chronor.  Louzy 
could look either way; Jewell is jump-5 and Regina jump-7, but Louzy's 
historical ties are with Regina and mighty Efate is just next door.  Grant 
is under the Interdict.

There's a precedent for having a subsector capital with no duke in the 
Marches from _Traveller Adventure_.  Aramis only has a Tukera marquis, who
looks to the Count of Celepina, who looks to the Duke of Rhylanor.  The
Marches seem to be shorter than usual on high nobility....


  Steve Bonneville
  <bonn0015@gold.tc.umn.edu>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 09:30:56 +0900 (EET DST)
From: Lauri Byckling <lby@niksula.hut.fi>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Vehicle spreadsheets, communicators
Message-ID: <199508030631.JAA29542@hydroman.cs.hut.fi>

Back in the days of MegaTraveller, excellent vehicle designs were
frequently sent to TML. This does not seem to be the case with T:TNE
anymore. Is anyone out there designing any vehicles of their own ?
Having attempted to do some vehicle designing myself (or actually to
reverse engineer the vehicles at RCES equipment guide), I have the
feeling that FF&S rules make the design of vehicles very
time-consuming but that this could be helped a lot with a
spreadsheet. 

I am now in the process of doing an Excel spreadsheet for ground and
lift vehicle design myself, but to save some trouble it would be nice
to hear that somebody else has already done it.

Another thing: radio communicators consume huge amounts of energy in
FF&S, in the kilowatt range for even short range communicators at
TL8. A friend of mine, who used to be a communications guy in the
army, estimated that the energy requirements are probably around
100-1000 times too big. Any opinions on this ? 
-- 
   /  /)   Lauri Byckling       
  /_ /_)   lauri.byckling@hut.fi


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 95 23:50:45 PDT
From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re(2): config stuff
Message-ID: <9508030650.AA29775@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt) sayeth:

"All in all, I think the lengths for different hull forms should be taken as
guidelines, and not forced."


 The only point at which the calculated lengths should be considered binding
is for the purpose of determining how long a spinal mount the ship can carry.
For other things like deck plans, fudging a bit won't hurt anyone.

James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
              <j.kundert@genie.geis.com>

"I am the downhill tumble and roll champ,
 King of the Toad Finders, Captain of the
 High Altitude Tree Branch Vista Club, second
 place finisher in the 'round the yard backward
 dash, premier burper state division, Sodbuster
 and Worm Scout First Order, and generalissimo
 of the Mud and Mayhem Society!"
                    -Calvin (not the theologian)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 06:08:54 -0500
From: bvanbra@bvemx.ppco.com
To: "SMTPMAIL-TRAVELLE (052)" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Fire Fusion and Steel
Message-ID: <0011200001307572000002*@MHS>

To: TRAVELLE--SMTPMAIL
 
From: Bart Van Brabant-Phillips Petroleum Int. AG (IS-DEPT)
     355 Brusselsesteenweg 3090 Overijse Belgium
     Tel: 32-2-6891375 Fax: 32-2-6891472
Subject: Fire Fusion and Steel
 
I am reading through my newly acquired FF&S copy (I finally found a shop in bel
gium which has a lot of MT and T:TNE materials) I come onto the term 'Laser Barb
ette'. Could somebody describe please what a barbette looks like. My english is
quite good, but I do not know this word. Also I do not seem to be able to loca
te the meaning of Master Fire Directors, although I am sure it is somewhere int
the book. It is a fun book to read, but rather difficult and mathematical.
 
I will start trying out some new designs soon, so I can post some to you.
 
Best regards,
 
Bart Van Brabant
 
X400: C=US,A=ATTMAIL,P=PHILLIPS66,OU1=P66,S=VAN BRABANT,G=BART
Internet Address:bvanbra@ppco.com
USPPC7XC@IBMMAIL, EVOKER@IBM.NET
NNNN

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 08:11:43 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Fire Fusion and Steel
Message-ID: <9508031411.AA20527@Rt66.com>

Hi,
  
>I am reading through my newly acquired FF&S copy (I finally found a shop in bel
>gium which has a lot of MT and T:TNE materials) I come onto the term 'Laser Bar
>ette'. Could somebody describe please what a barbette looks like. My english is
>quite good, but I do not know this word. Also I do not seem to be able to loca
>te the meaning of Master Fire Directors, although I am sure it is somewhere int
>the book. It is a fun book to read, but rather difficult and mathematical.

Bart, barbettes are simply large turrets in FFS designs.  I'm honestly at a loss
this morning for any background on the use of the word, if I remember later I'll
drop you a line.

A Master Fire Director (MFD) is used to control the firing of a battery of
weapons (_directing_ their fire at a target).  In addition, an MFD contains more
sophisticated fire control equipment than a turret or barbette has, and so it
improves the quality of the aiming task.

>  
> Best regards,
> Bart Van Brabant
> 
---Merrick


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:39:23 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Really Big Lasers
Message-ID: <9508031939.AA12983@Rt66.com>

Howdy,

Donald Munro's post, along with Brendan O'Donovan's jump fighter got me 
thinking about lasers again (I like the non-grav-focused laser idea :)

He is right in pointing out the need for a size limit on trainable weapons.
One interesting idea I had makes the old hardpoint limits make sense (so the
limits on the TNE ships converted from CT/MT will still make sense. Basically
the idea comes out of having a large object rotating on a ship.  When the turret
in question is turned the ship "wants" to turn the other way, right?  This works
because the ship is so much more massive than the turret that while there is a 
force on the ship, it has enough inertia to make the counter-rotation small (and
therefore easy to correct for with thrusters, etc).

What if with hull volume converted to mass (same rules as used for Mdrive vs.
ship mass) a ship can only have 1 turret per 100 dtons...  The fact that the
lasers are now grav focused makes this make even more sense since the FA creates
a gravity source (read: mass) in/near the turret.  You could have more turrets,
but maybe you pay a maneuver penalty when you train the extra turrets.

Of couse this is all standardized on a 3dton turret (well, 3-6 dtons).  We'd
need to come up with guidelines on turrets per dton based on the turret volume
(really mass, but abstracted as volume to be consistant).

Turret Size		Turrets/dton
(dtons)
--------------		---------------
0-2.99			2/100dtons
3-6.99			1/100
7-29.99			0.5/100
30-49.99		.25/100
50-99.99		.1/100
100-whatever		0.075/100

All fractional allowed turrets would be rounder *up*.  Any FA that can fit 
within a given turret is trainable, it's just that you need bigger and bigger
turrets to do so.  Non-trainable weapons wouldn't be restricted.

Bay weapons might be defined with limited arcs of fire, and the Bay Weapons per
dton table could be adjusted to allow a few more to be used.
 
I'd still like to see the volume required for the steering mount, so that it
would take up volume in the turret (to limit numbers of super-lasers).  Maybe
the same 15*hull rate rule for Mdrives could be used as well.  If the turret
mass is more than 15*turret size (dtons) (calculated using the *maximum* size
on the chart (3-6.99, 7-29.99, etc)) then it jumps to the next allowed rate on
the chart.

ie: A massive 6dton barbette has a mass of 125 tonnes.  That means the number
of allowed turrets goes from 1 per 100dtons of ship to .5 per 100 dtons.

Ideas on the volume of the steering stuff would be great.


> 	I would be interested to know how long people think a focal
> array would have to be before it could no longer be thought of as
> trainable for the purposes of space combat ie at what point will it
> bend, osculate and wobble too much to be able to have any reasonable
> chance of tracking an object at more  than 0.1 of a light second.

Yup, that would be useful :)  
> 

-Merrick

------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 367
***************************
